Talk:Muhammad

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Contents 1 The Vast Amounts of quotable hadith 2 Portrait of Muhammad 3 Qur'an quotes 4 Unsourced quote 5 Removed Statement 6 Apparent Bias of the Translations 7 Depictions of Muhammad 8 Riyadh-us-Salaheen 9 Ransom for POWs

[edit] The Vast Amounts of quotable hadith

In my mind, this page is THE hardest to create. Tens of thousands of hadith exist, and various Islamic schools of thought exist which classify them on a scale of undeniably authentic to false. A good number of these hadith are disputed among the different sects, mainly Sunni and Shia. Also, a large number of these hadith really need some sort of commentary to be understandable to the uninitiated. Some hadith are literally pages long, and involve a story and background of events in order for the quote to be understood, but are still vital hadith in Islam. I suppose we don't have to compile ALL the hadith, but a "best of" list will be quite tricky in itself. Anyone want to help me? ~ mr100percent 23:53, 08 Mar 2005 (EST)

Does the Fatiha (first chapter of the Koran) has any reason to belong to that page ? I don't think so...

^some scholars say that Fatiha is the question and all the other Surah's (not chapters) are the answers

[edit] Portrait of Muhammad

The portrait on the right hand side of the web page portrays Muhammad, at least in the manner of the artist's imagination. In accordance with Islamic beliefs, I respectfully ask that it be taken down as a sign of respect to muslim tradition.

• This is a valid point, I think it might be a good idea to ask some muslims on their opinion of the matter, given that art within some mosques I've been inside depict prophets, just with blank faces (as in the picture). I think this may be permitted, although this may only be specific to certain sects. Would be good to have some more information on the matter.

It is forbidden in Islam. It is a sin to draw Muhammad.

It wasn't always considered forbidden. Just look at old Iranian art. There are plenty of pictures of Muhammed drawn by the original muslims. Nobody has the right to get self-righteous over this subject...if you post a picture of the prophet you aren't violating anything sacred.

The problem is everyone has their own level of faith, some people feel it is not bad to depict the prophet even though portraying pretty much anything with a face is not permissible under Islamic Law, so you cant say this act wasn't always forbidden, just some people tend to avoid it

Most Shi'a groups (including the dominant Nizari Ismaili and Usuli Twelver) have no issue with pictures. I'll be putting them up. --Enzuru 01:36, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Qur'an quotes

Recent additions here have been rather disorganized and show signs of an edit war between different quotations from the Qur'an. As there is a separate article for the Qur'an any quotes from it should go there, and the sourced hadith have been organized here in alphabetical sequence. I might do some editing on this later, but only have time to make a few comments right now. ~ Kalki 15:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

There have now been extensive additions of Qur'an quotes made here, and as there is a separate article for these quotes they should all go there, and not remain here, especially since, in most traditional Muslim interpretations, these were not the words of Muhammad at all, but of Allah. ~ Kalki 19:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

There is an obvious bad faith in quotes that have been placed in this page. The Quranic quotes are all about disbelievers, as if there is no other statement in the book. All religious books promise punishment to disbelievers. This book, however, is not about that, as it is portrayed. For every "doom" mentioned in this book, there is at least one "blessing", either before or after that statement. It is bad faith to quote only the parts about wrongdoers and their punishment. Muslims do not believe that people in heaven will be all Muslims. Non-Muslims *are* believed to go to heaven too, as long as they do good in their lives, and they are even believed to deserve heaven more than those who do believe in Allah yet do not do good as they should. Mostly, those who are promised heaven are not just named "believers", they are more importantly named "those who do good". This is an important point. Also, the quotes about Jews and Christians are *not* about all of them but about those who have/had lost their way. Please note that Jews and Christians are *never* mentioned as nonbelievers. On the contrary, they have always been seperated from nonbelievers, as "People of the Book(s)". Please note that and give quotes with good faith, and try to be just, instead of trying to portray a book of hatred. --BlacxthornE 14:53, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

This is just a brief comment, as I am about to leave home and will be gone for a few hours. I do not believe that quotes from the Qur'an should be on this page. I once included only the Basmala and links to the Qur'an here, and thought that a pretty good situation. I consented to have the Basmala removed at the objection of someone or other, but I do believe that primarily only links to Qur'an should be made near the start of the article, and quotes from it not included in the article itself.
I am not inclined to argue the point of whether or not this or any other book or message is the "ultimate" or "supreme" word of God/Allah/Bhraman/Tao/Whatever. If the "word of God" is fundamentally Truth, then the shopping list I compose for my own consultation is a word of God, though not a highly important one, for me or for anyone else.
Many authors have separate pages for extensive quotes of their works on separate pages, and the division separating the Qur'an from the Hadith on this page is convenient, even if one considers Muhammad the author of the work, and there is not need for a dispute over theological matters in making the division. ~ Kalki 00:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced quote

I was tempted to add the following saying attributed to the prophet Muhammad

 "The ink [of the pen] of the scholar is more precious than the blood of martyr"

which is cited on numerous Islamic websites but an exact source is never cited and so far I have been unable to trace its origin.

Is anyone familiar with its origin?

• The quote is even in Mohammad, Messenger of God near the end of the movie. It is a fabricated hadith.[1]--Inesculent 08:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Statement

"Anti-Muslims resort to a deceitful misrepresentation when they misquote the Quranic verses of the second chapter. They claim that Quran promoted killing the infidels wherever you find them. Indeed, this is true but only if the infidels attack Muslims. Here are the verses complete" reveals rather plainly an agenda, perhaps a response to the fact that (I believe) the verses he/she added to were left alone and thus perhaps were misleading. But not all who point out those verses are anti-Muslim, it creates a straw man anti-Muslim, and the agenda of one person obviously has no place here.

[edit] Apparent Bias of the Translations

It is evident that most of the English translations, and some of the bracketed comments were made by non-Muslims, as the widely-used scholarly translations of the Quran and the Hadith were not used (translations such as Yusuf Ali, Malik, or even the less used Pictall). Instead, pseudo-sarcastic, comment-like, almost insulting translations are given which are quite frankly an embarrassment and an insult to the aforementioned scholarly efforts to translate the Quran and Hadith, and a further insult to the beauty and depth of the original Arabic. I will never recommend this page to anyone, except as evidence of a work of users that either muddled the original posts, or intentionally reduced the quotations so as to selfishly and cowardly promote their own belief systems. -- AHM, Trinidad & Tobago.

[edit] Depictions of Muhammad

I support the merger of the above article into this one. I see no reason that a separate article is needed. Depictions of Muhammad as it is now written appears to be a negative pov fork. FloNight♥♥♥ 19:01, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Merged as "About Muhammad". The precedent discussion may be found at Talk:Depictions of Muhammad. There is also another similar article, perhaps transwikied from English Wikipedia (it is in their format, not ours), Non-Islamic views of Muhammad. I think it should be also merged to the same section, without POV header, "non-islamic view" or alike. --Aphaia 15:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Riyadh-us-Salaheen

Riyadh-us-Salaheen is another spelling of Riyadh as-Saaliheen.

It would be nice if an online version of this existed so that we could check specific sayings.--Inesculent 23:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Riyad-us-Saliheen. --Inesculent 00:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ransom for POWs

• The Prophet Muhammad himself exchanged prisoners for ransom. There's nothing wrong with collecting money in exchange for prisoners.
  • Uzbeki Jihadist Leader Encourages Followers to Rob Banks and Promises Terror Attacks in Washington, Moscow, London, Paris, Delhi, Beijing, and Elsewhere. MEMRI (December 3, 2007).

This quote should remain until at least someone finds a traditional Islamic source to refute it.--Inesculent 02:15, 8 January 2008 (UTC)